Being Neloth Telvanni - Roleplaying in our setting

[Valorin Telvanni]

This is the discussion thread. For the most up-to-date version of this article, please head over to the Wiki.

 

Neloth Telvanni - You all know him, right? If you don't you should look him up or play Morrowind and Skyrim - Dragonborn where you can find him on Solstheim. He is on youtube too, by the way. Basically Neloth is a big nerd, additionally he is also insanely powerful and a somewhat antisocial person which he makes up with... well... power. Lots of it. I have to commit that I really like him, being such an sarcastic and arrogant person spitting highly sophisticated annoyance in my direction while sipping on canis root tea.

So what does Neloth do all day... I am sure he does a lot of things, researching, visiting planes of Oblivion, talking to Daedric Princes, harrassing his apprentice while experimenting on him. The only social contact on this list is his apprentice, and communication isn't much more than Neloth beating him verbally while the apprentice is constantly whining. That's really funny as a visitor and pictures a geat example of a Telvanni wizard. One of the most powerful.

Keeping great Neloth in mind I take a look on our community. First thing I notice is: Neloth Telvanni and community does not go together. Fortunatelly our members aren't Telvanni at all, which makes our guild so incredibly great. Now thinking about roleplaying where the Telvanni setting is present all the time... Which means, Neloth is here, or at least he could be.

When I picture Neloth Telvanni as a roleplaying character I really think, he is the worst choice ever. Roleplaying is all about social interaction between our characters, someone like Neloth has more social interaction with Daedric Princes I guess, but who wants to play a Daedric Prince? Yeah, I know... Just shut up, s'wit. ;) 

So, who wants to be a Neloth? But you want a wizard, well...

1. We want Telvanni characters, which means we want grumpy, solitary wizards focused on research or other magical nonsense.

2. We want characters who are also able to communicate with others... And with more than just one or two more characters, otherwise we don't have a community gameplay.

This is something everybody should consider when creating a character, which isn't easy sometimes. As much as we love the classic Telvanni wizard, he has a very short range concerning roleplay.

 

Two worlds and power levels

Being a noble House, Great House Telvanni features highborn people, most of the people on top are also powerful wizards. This is, of course, one big part of our gameplay, including an insane power level for some characters like the Archmagister and the council members. This is not for compensating ego issues of the players, but the nature of the setting we wish to enjoy here. Of course House Telvanni doesn't only feature powerful wizards but also a lot of people on lower ranks. These people also make great characters and also have a wider range concerning background choices like race, class and so on.

I believe you can have a lot of fun roleplaying in both of these worlds, but an issue is, that they don't go together so very well. They are seperated by rank, power level, heritage and many other things. Doesn't mean there is no contact at all, but most of the time that's just a brief rapport. A servant, slave or Oathman will not just speak his mind when talking to a high noble (and often antisocial) wizard who can burn him to cinders with one thought.

I keep two main characters I frequently play, and another two for special scenes or when a good opportunity arises. Two of them are part of the upper class and the other two more on the servant/Oathman side. For me this is a good way to play in both worlds and I think everybody should have spare characters too, be it just for the play not getting seperated too much. If there are six people online and three of them are high wizards and the others Oathmen then there is a good chance there will be two groups of three people playing seperated from each other, which is really annoying I think. Although with more players that might work.

 

The Setting and new players - Not a book club but a Mafia clan

I noticed that many players just grab their main character and want to jump into the play. I guess that works with many settings and it's a good way to just go ahead and.. well.. play. It doesn't work with the Telvanni setting though, especially not with the high wizard part of it. Being a noble Dunmer House, Great House Telvanni is picky with new members and most members don't like non-Dunmers much, in fact many of them don't like anybody... There are some players, especially those who know the Great House and its lore and thus know which kind of play and treatment they will find when going into the reliquary. Of course the Archmagister will prefer somebody who is a Dunmer wizard instead of a Nord warrior, of course many of the wizards won't even listen to some n'wah Orc stumbling in and greeting them with his tribal greeting ritual. Those wizards of course will mock or even hurt or kill somebody who insults the House. The Great Houses of Morrowind are a bit like Mafia Clans. You don't just go in, insult somebody and live to tell the story. These people mean it and a character should know that and have a strong motivation to ask for membership.

On the playerside that means that new players should be familiar with the Houses of Morrowind, at least with the Telvanni, and play a character that has a chance to fit in. For players new to roleplaying it means that you need a lot of support I guess. For the roleplayers among us who are already part of our play, it means that we have to provide support for these people. Otherwise there is a big chance they just run into us wizards, doing something "stupid" because they are new to this all and then chances are they won't ever play again because they had a bad start including dunmeri insults they didn't understand and being laughed at (which is of course STRICTLY ingame, but nontheless annoying and demoralizing).

[manavortex]

Thank you for writing that down so thoroughly, my love. I appreciate it that you took the time to sort the whole matter through.

As Vivicah is guilty as charged, I'll deliver some input from my point of view:

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First thing I notice is: Neloth Telvanni and community does not go together.

Yes, exactly. But then again, we're in a fortunate position by being the mainland branch. The Neloths of the House would never leave Vvardenfell. In fact Vivicah shares some of his personality traits, but she's completely not antisocial. In fact, she has been all about building a community (exactly the thing she despised her mother for in her teenage rebellion, but she hasn't realized yet), no small challenge when that community is supposed to be made up out of antisocial nerds. We'd need a wizard LAN party or something.

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We want characters who are also able to communicate with others... And with more than just one or two more characters, otherwise we don't have a community gameplay.

Again the Archmagister is guilty as charged when it comes to this. For Vivicah, community gameplay means work. She doesn't mind the job, and she's good at it, and after all, making people like her is all she can do when it comes to being influential, but it's not what she would do if she could chose.
If someone else would keep everyone flattered and make sure that everyone plays along, she would likely hang out with the same three people forever, and that's (in this order) Valorin, Nelvan and Sier. Spending time with her Kena isn't too dull either, but Navradas is mentally exhausting and therefore filed under "work".
As I do not have as much online time as I would like to due to work and the fact that the day has only 24 hours, I simply cannot spend 2/3rd of that with solitarizing Vivicah, so that's what I'll be in the IRC for during the day. Feel free to pop in if you need non-public interaction with Vivicah. About the rest, well, it's a full-time job, huh? :D

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This is, of course, one big part of our gameplay, including an insane power level for some characters like the Archmagister and the council members. This is not for compensating ego issues of the players, but the nature of the setting we wish to enjoy here.

Given that everything is okay when it comes to the size of my penis I feel like I should indeed inform you that this is more the matter of making the most of a certain settings. I've always liked the kind of mage RP - the one where everyone would be able to fry the opponent within a heartbeat, so that everyone has to be _really_ polite to each other - similar to Cold War back in the day.
The reason why I don't have any well-liked and well-played character for the lower-class-settings is that I generally suck at it. I'm a nerd in real life. Would I find myself on Tamriel, I'd probably immediately head for the nearest Mushroom Tower and ask what I had to do to gain access to the books. I'm not convincing as someone who is not affected by the savant syndrome, and I don't like it much. I guess everyone has their preferences, and it's completely okay, but people should be aware of the fact that not everyone fits into every situation.

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The Great Houses of Morrowind are a bit like Mafia Clans. You don't just go in, insult somebody and live to tell the story.

Yet I have a character who would most likely ask who has sent for the jester and be genuinely amused, at least if the insult was a good one. But yes, the point stands.

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On the playerside that means that new players should be familiar with the Houses of Morrowind, at least with the Telvanni, and play a character that has a chance to fit in. For players new to roleplaying it means that you need a lot of support I guess.

I am, and have always been, really supportive when someone asks me nicely. But I don't get the point in helping people carrying their own ass. I'll go on and see that I re-structurize the information on the website, so that those who actually register will find everything quickly, and answer questions as long as they are asked, but I still cannot read minds and won't bother learning it any time soon. :) I suppose we could stalk anyone who wants to become a Telvanni and hit them on the head with a manual until they can pass a test or anything, but I'm too lazy. Maybe we should create a council position for that?

[Aethelwolfe]

Do we have to talk like this?

  

 

Seriously you sound a bit like the spinner from the Wilderking story...."Ask nicely." But it was charming in that case as was the tale.

 

And leading means reading minds. It does. But mostly leading means it's not about you. You made the meeting on Sunday about you and now it's time to make up for that by making it about the guild and about people not in your circle. Leading means having no circle smaller than the guild itself.

 

I didn't make that up. It's just the way it is. And if you want greater forum participation make that the way it is to be a member of the guild. Make it go both ways. This is how communities are built.

[malakil]

Well now.

I think it all boils down to two relatively simple things.

1) The number of players engaged in frequent roleplay needs be as large as possible, at least 15-20. That's the only way to have interaction between the high and low mages (I like the term, get off my back) which doesn't dissolve into two separate groups. In order to achieve that, storylines and casual roleplay should be general enough for everyone to participate. It's great when 5-6 high mages (poor Amrun sees himself as one of those) attune Vivicah to the Vault or whatnot, but that isn't really something a newcomer can get access to.

2) Players should feel welcome. Never mind the characters. For example, everyone knows Nelvan is, for lack of a better term, an asshole. It's when that kind of an attitude spills over to the players that it becomes a problem. I understand that most of the players whose characters are on the Council spend a lot of time together on TS and IRC, but to be honest, to an outsider, it feels like a very exclusive club. That's not very social, don't you agree?

That's it for now. I'm sure I'll think of a ton of good examples and advice the moment I hit Submit.

Also, hitting people over the head with the latest copy of "Telvanni for Fetchers" is a good idea.

[Valorin Telvanni]

I agree to what Amrun says, mostly at least. To set this right: Most council members are guildmembers for a long time now and know each other, but at least Mana and me aren't so much on TS. And the irc is merely a way for Mana to have contact to the outside world, because she needs to have at least three tasks running to work properly. And it's for personal character play, which is really fun, but a little misplaced when happening ingame all the time because characters seperate while doing so. The irc isn't crowded... At the moment Mana, Seth and me hang out there and seldomly talk. :D Mana's plan with the irc is, to outsource the ingame chat to it via an addon, so she can read it without having the game running on her laptop.

And yes, setting up plots only for a few people isn't good for community roleplaying, and the way Telvanni treat newcomers isn't as well... The latter is just lore, but it means the players have to be double as polite to newcomers. Concerning plot for all players, we seldomly have a real plot because most of the players of our daily circle doesn't have much time to create them. We have ideas for a story though, that will occupy more players. 

The daily roleplaying we have at the moment, the little circle of players, is most of the time just casual roleplaying. Since Telvanni won't meet in a Tavern we meet in the common room in Heimlyn Keep most of the time.

But as I said, we (which is mainly Spacemarine, Manavortex and me) have something in mind to occupy more guildmembers who want to be part of the play. This is work in progress. Most things that happened before were unplanned, improvised stories, mostly originated in characterplay.

And another thing: Mana and me do not have time to set up big roleplaying events for the guild all the time. Aim is to create roleplaying that is fun for all who participate, but players have to create characters who fit in. If they don't the very nature of our setting will cast them out. You can't play a water spirit on the elemental plane of fire. Doesn't mean we all have to play grumpy wizards (I won't do that either, by the way), but it means you can't play a Nord warrior and expect to be treated fair. A Nord warrior is an n'wah, in the beginning at least... The Telvanni won't value your brutish strength or honorable deeds. Not a bit.

Characters who hang around Heimlyn Keep at the moment consist of two or three dunmer wizards, an argonian wizard mom, a slave, a servant, a young apprentice, a warrior/enchanter and others. Three of these are council members.

 

[manavortex]

It's when that kind of an attitude spills over to the players that it becomes a problem. I understand that most of the players whose characters are on the Council spend a lot of time together on TS and IRC, but to be honest, to an outsider, it feels like a very exclusive club

I'm hardly ever on TS, and the IRC is open to everyone, and I will stream the guild chat through there. I'm not making any progress with developing that addon, mainly because my computer isn't running a unix and it's a pain in the ass to compile those libraries under Windows, but I have high hopes for the weekend. Until then everyone is welcome to come to the IRC, I've made my notebook auto-log into that, so you can find me whenever I'm not.

Besides I'm hitting everybody on the head who's being an asshole OOC, and I warn everyone I'm recruiting about Seth. I really do. :D

 

Aethel, find me in IRC, if you please.

[Aethelwolfe]

IRC? I've never used it and I don't have a client for it. But as my last post went away it can't be good but I'm out tonight.

[manavortex]

That's why you just klick on the corresponding link. And I moved that post to a safe place, since it had absolutely nothing to do with the topic and contained things that should rather be discussed in real time.

[Aethelwolfe]

I suppose. Notions of propriety differ of course but I respect yours. Just got home. Have to talk to people to carry on with my long shot mission.

And IRC...heck got me thinking about all those Internet protocols before the web, and how special we felt when we used them way back then...likely before you came into this world. Did you ever feel, as a baby, that you sliding back into the void?  I sure as hell did.

But that's off topic too. Would just prefer to talk with you but something about my talking seems to make your brain hurt, and that is not among my goals or ambitions.

Tomorrow then! What is it....Internet Relay Communication? Oy g'valt!

[Aethelwolfe]

Couldn't sleep worth a damn so I logged into the NA server at 3AM, my time, to gather my hireling disappointments and check my mail.

My original RP guild, which only had done entertainment for events, had become a Dres hard core RP guild. Gone were the dancers. The roster now had guild titles such as Guard, Waitress, Bar Tender, and the like. The new guild leader had sent around specific dress requirements for each....which I quickly deleted. But one requirement was more interesting: that all of us watch an instructional video series on YouTube on how to RP in TESO as they put it.

I felt embarrassed after I watched it, I must confess. Created by a young fellow calling himself The Human Floyd, it made me realize just how much I don't get it when it comes to RP in this game.

 

Such gentleness and subtlety are not among my qualities.